Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 4, 2003 3:05:42 GMT -5
Yuusuke x Kurama Gees...that was when the Kurama x Hiei pairing was getting old and people were starting to look for something new. There's this site that has a collection of YYH doujins scanned (aethiesm.net or something?) and it featured Yuusuke x Kuwabara ( ) as a couple with Kuwabara dressed in a school girl's sailor outfit (it was chibi, but it was still disturbing). Hmmm....that's just a PWP (plot? What plot?) lemon fic - so of course it's going to have a lot of sex and OOCness dear. As to whether you find the act of sex between two men disgusting - that's your opinion. Frankly, a lot of chinese HisoxIllu lemon fics are like that - basically, there's one paragraph about how they meet (or how Hisoka catches Illumi) and bam - straight into bed. But hey, some are written well, so I'm not complaining. When you read lemon fics, or when *I* read lemon fics, I know not to expect plot or in-characterness. Double plus if they DO have it, but if they don't, it's still got Hisoka and Illumi so I'm cool. Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 3, 2003 5:50:35 GMT -5
No - I just find it surprising because yaoi seems to be everywhere. You have 2 boys in an anime? There's bound to be a yaoi fanfic on it somewhere.
The most amusing is YYH - especially the Chinese ones. After all these years, there's still fanfiction (which is just simply amazing), but because the pairing's getting old, the new ones that people come up with really make me gasp and wheeze in shock.
Kuwabara x Hiei?! OMG?!?! Lol lol - well, you know when people get desperate and want to be original or just try something new - that's what you get - something hilarious and shocking at the same time. I'm sorry, but whilst I laugh, the idea of Kuwabara and Hiei makes me want to barf, lol.
That's kinda starting to happen to HxH with those wierd Feitan x Phinx pairings - and in the jap pages (I just flick through for fanarts sometimes), it's Feitan x Kuroro?! WT?!?!? Lol!
Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 3, 2003 5:10:47 GMT -5
;D How can I NOT know Slam Dunk? It was one of the very first comics that I could read in Chinese because Sakuragi's lines were always so simple. And it was one of the first sports manga that I read as well. I loved it to pieces, and compared to Prince of Tennis, I think the author does a much better job with the team members than the tennis one. Well.....doujinshi of that type are inevitable (I actually want to read a HisoxIllu one!) and I don't want this to turn into a yaoi-hating/bashing thread so you know, what people do and think is their right - at least it's only imaginary characters bonking each other. But I can't believe it! This forum doesn't seem to be swamped with yaoi fangirls. Wow - there are still areas of resistance after all then. You didn't respect their freedom of expression?! Or maybe I'm just being politically correct...but I don't think so. For example - why do people keep pairing Kurama and Hiei together? --> because the anime drawers deliberately put in ambiguous scenes during the anime. Why do people like to pair Leorio and Kurapika together? --> Go look at the end of episode 62 and tell me that the drawers aren't trying to bait the fangirls. Lots of scenes are deliberately anonymous - even if you're thinking completely straight. Even Togashi himself almost did it with Killua and Gon in the 2nd OVA - whilst most of us could choose to interpret Killua's words innocently ("I'm so glad I have you Gon"), I cannot refute that it could easily be interpreted with some other meaning. Well - apparently yaoi fandom is huge, so it's a way of drawing the fans I guess. You don't think Hisoka and Illumi don't show possibilities of being together? This girl put it very well - and it's in Chinese as well: dang...can't find the addy right now - will patch it to you later Hisoka, gay? He's such a flippant and unpredictable character that I say he could easily be bi. Illumi - frankly, he's just a minor character who nobody knows much about and contains a lot of speculation, that's why it's so much fun to play with the minor characters Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 2, 2003 6:24:02 GMT -5
I was horrified by the yaoi pictures that my sister and I found when we were first introduced to the internet and started looking up anime straight away. Those pictures were from Slam Dunk, and we couldn't believe it. We read the comics, watched the anime, and there was no way known that Sendoh and Rukawa could make a couple. For goodness sakes, must people pervert rivalry into some sort of yaoi relationship?
Over the years, I don't say anything about 'couplings' - people do what they want with the story. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think that Kurama and Hiei belong together, but that's their business.
The only yaoi couple that I find acceptable is HisokaxIllumi from Hunter x Hunter - I thought it was almost inevitable the first time I ever same them together (not to mention the fact I thought Illumi was a girl before Killua called him brother). Other than that, I see not even the most remote possibility of couplings with any other anime character.
My own strange phenomenon aside, what do you guys think of yaoi fanfics and male couplings in general?
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Oct 25, 2003 23:25:12 GMT -5
There is one not-bad Mary Sue fic in the Hunter category (sorry Yumiko...but you know how I feel about MS generall ) by kaitou-marron called Loneliness (http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=939751) - very obvious Mary Sue, but if you don't want to be flamed brutally by anonymous reviewers, you've got to have that kind of language and depth at least. If I read that, I wouldn't be as annoyed as a 'MS comes out of the blue and bam she's in everyone's lives!'. And Sarj's Phantoms...I haven't read it in a while, but from my memory alone, the OC is mary sue-ish. Not a lot, but with the whole burkha getup in the beginning, pretty salmon pink lips and sexual harrassment by Hisoka...well...yeah, just a bit mary sue-ish from memory. Yes! Spread the word - try to avoid <> as much as possible and before you press send, copy and paste the review and save it in wordpad or notepad just in case! So far, I've found that: >D --> they still work without chopping off the words. I don't want to experiment further, so smilies etc, stick with the round brackets. Misc: Cherrie just reviewed Definition Chpt II at the ML - hehe - hide your Hisoka plushies everyone!
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Oct 23, 2003 20:39:47 GMT -5
Don't know my words?!?! Why, you don't even need to pull out the dusty ol dictionary. ff.net has the function where you highlight the word and hit 'd' and the dictionary definition of the word will pop up. Convenient isn't it? Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Oct 22, 2003 22:13:32 GMT -5
;D *cyber hug* ;D
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Oct 22, 2003 0:24:57 GMT -5
;D Thanks for supporting my fic masami! After many trials (plagiarism incident) and tribulations (people seem to like it!), the fic is well under way. Anyway - for those who want to see the end product after the accumulation of fruitful discussion: www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1525626Take care all! Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 8, 2003 0:09:30 GMT -5
Hmm...I just read through the Celestial Tower chapter, and Wing is chock full of information, especially on how to use Ten and Ren. That kind of detail no one hardly ever delves into in fanfics.
Togashi went to a LOT of trouble to define nen, so it's not something that I can just use my 'imagination' to supplement. It would be an insult to Togashi and the time he spent.
And then there's Kurapika's sensei who told him all about the condition and the pledge. Ask that of any Hunter author, and they'll probably go "um..er...it's the thing that Kurapika has around his heart" --> wrong answer - go back to the manga and learn it all again.
Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 7, 2003 9:41:40 GMT -5
:'(Awww....you know that there's a site which has scanlated HxH manga into English? It's a very good scanlation, done by Toriyama world: www.toriyamaworld.comThey've got up to volume 14 scanlated - so with bit torrent (just a program you can download for free), get the volumes downloaded and read away. Besides, reading manga's fun, PLUS you get to know the characters as well. I should know - I'm trying to sound intelligent when it comes to nen, only to realize that apart from the 6 hatsu abilities, I know nothing else. Can't write a fanfic with that kind of knowledge. Keep going Fibby - need more humorous fics! Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 5, 2003 20:11:52 GMT -5
Yup - this is just me experimenting whether you can really have an OC-centered fic which is acceptable. If it fails, I'm going to blame my writing skills. I think I'm committing a cardinal sin as well - starting with the OC. Bam - that's going to be a turnoff. I hope not - I've started the story with something that everyone can relate to: an argument with your mum ( oh gees? how unoriginal?) - but not the screaming and yelling type. Self insert you see, so I don't think I'm going to portray myself unattractively as to scream and kick and carry on like a baby --> I hope it appeals; I'm writing from the perspective of a twenty year old, and most female OCs in Hunter fiction seem to be in their early teens...easier to pair up with Killua or Kurapika I guess ( ). Plot: 55% conceptualized... Writing skills: 60% efficiency Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 5, 2003 2:28:36 GMT -5
Um....not for some time perhaps....the prologue is still going a bit slow and everything, plus I want to be able to define her nen before I even get anywhere near fighting. So yeah will take some time. Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 4, 2003 2:54:28 GMT -5
yeah, it is a good idea isn't it? The only thing you'll have to watch out for is why this female assassin should choose, out of all possible alternatives, to pretend to be a Kurata. Then you've got to somehow explain how Kurapika can be tricked so easily since he's such as suspicious and intelligent character. Bleh - still working on the new one, meaning delays on my current projects. *sigh* and I have to get my assignment over and done with first.... Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 3, 2003 0:51:15 GMT -5
*shudders uncontrollably* I think I've seen four or five of those stories already. Oh my! I never thought of that! Think about the reaction from the readers once they find out! They'll hate her and scream bloody murder once they find out! Wow - and won't the showdown be spectacular - girl who is assassin pretends to be Kurata v Kurapika who is terrifyingly angry for having his emotions manipulated ( if he can be manipulated - I'm thinking Kurapika is very smart and to fool him, you've got to be ultra smart, but if you ultra smart, surely you can think of other ways to get rid of Kurapika without having to pretend to be a Kurata survivor...ok....so maybe there's a lot of explanation to do here...) - either way, you're in for a climatic fight. If you've got time, I think you could seriously think about this plot! You know what, I've picked on flawed OCs and called them Mary Sues. Now I'm wondering: are they really mary sues, or just a bad, bad character that's trying hard not to be a mary sue but is not making the cut into an OC, but because they have a 'flaw', they can't be the classic Mary Sue. Perhaps the definition of Mary Sue ought to be altered somewhat, or a new definition made for the new class of badly made OCs who, although have flaws that don't mean anything to the story, still lead a blatantly Mary Sue type of story. Thanks for helping me clarify the distinction Fibby! I think I was starting to confuse people when I lumped these two categories together! Perhaps Mary Sue's minimally better cousin could be called Saray May - eitherhow, I just want to avoid the two altogether. Oh - I call that the sob sorry excuse of a tragedy to gain cheap sympathy from the reader. No - I'm going nowhere near that track - right now, the story starts off with a clinical discussion between OC and her mother of the merits of staying single, then OC leaving home in the middle of the night to catch the bus, head towards the pier to find the navigator to take her to the first Hunter test. Pretty dull huh? I'm brainstorming. I'm thinking of real - like girl from middle-class family gone to join the Hunter exam in search for the meaning of life. To become a Hunter is an amazing privilege, not to mention it really opens your eyes up to the world and the kinds of people you can meet (*all eyes on Hisoka*) which slowly transforms 'real' girl more into not-so-real girl as she becomes more involved in the other world of nen-users. Brainstorming is coming with some ideas, but I really want to think of an end first so that I have a loose structure and won't rant forever. Hey Fibby, when's your HxH fic going to be ready to post?! Yomi
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 2, 2003 5:55:41 GMT -5
I've been waiting for people to shoot back at me for a very long time now. I'm starting to think that the waiting may be futile. The fact that the people whose fics I flame have Mary Sues in them means they're too stupid to intelligently flame back. As to the self-insert - yes, I've given this a lot of thought. I said on my own page somewhere that even if the character is not almighty perfect, just the fact that the OC is the main character will irk people already. I'm thinking that it might be because of the writing - if that's the case, then I'm going to have to spend a lot of time on it to make sure that the linguistics helps to peter out the negative effects of OC-centerism. Hence bad things are: - Wish-fulfilment - it's despicable because our fundamental desires are inevitably the same. Who's going to read crud that they can spin in their own daydreams.
Solution? Make the wish unique?
- OC-centerism - it's despicable because the reader is forced to see the adventure about their favourite characters from a stranger's perspective. Further complication: OC turns out to be a Mary Sue
Solution? Avoid perfectionism. Make OC identifiable to the reader. Further complication - how to make this OC identifiable then? How to make a character that readers can relate to? Secondary solution: make it a real person? Last complication: how do you make a real person? Is it just a person with some nasty habit like picking their nose? Does it mean that character must have spunk? I know flaws have to impact on the character's actions, but I feel like I'm still missing something else.
- People don't want to read about OCs fullstop - tell them to go f*ck themselves then.
That is your comeback? All right - I'm going to say this in short sentences for you: - You love your own characters too much. You have emotional attachment to your character. You are in no position to judge.
- People whose opinions are backed by emotions (e.g. I like her) don't mean a scrap to me. I see those as rubbish opinions not worth my time.
- People's opinions that are backed by logic (e.g. she has many rebellious qualities that children living in ghettos tend to display) are opinions that I respect because it displays intelligence. So if you come back with reasons telling me why a character is not a Mary Sue, by all means tell me. But you have a hideous track record of trying to pick out the Mary Sues. You remember Kassari don't you? I remember you have quite a lot of difficulties understanding the CONCEPT.
www.fanfiction.net/reviews.php?storyid=1373922 Go read the story folks - even if you don't know Hunter x Hunter, just read the first two paragraphs and you'll instantly see that it IS a mary sue.
- I judge characters objectively and not from the perspective from an adoring fan, like you (not that it's bad or wrong). BUT that means we're going to be talking about completely different things.
- Talking objective - impartial and without emotion - gets you closer to FACT. That's what I do.
- Talking subjectively (I like) - not impartial, heavily biased with preconceptions about a character - you deal in opinion.
The purpose of this fic is whether I'm going to create a MS fic or not with the premise that I've given. I'm asking for people's ideas on how I can A-V-O-I-D the things which make a Mary Sue. If YOU can't even tell whether a character is a Mary Sue or not, and would like to live you your happy world of "it's just all opinion", then I'm sorry, but it isn't helping me. I want judgements, not opinion. Hades:[/i] You call this an attack? Gees Babe, I'm...hurt...I'm...shocked...I'm.....how can this be an attack on you?! By the yutzes on Mount Olympus Yomi hasn't even gotten his hands dirty. I'd be hurling personal abuse at you right now - make no mistake, if it were ME in charge (memo to myself: plan hostile takeover of forum in the future....), I'd have QUITE a lot to say about your inability to read, your inability to be on topic, your inability to refrain from making inane statements, your inability to learn what a Mary Sue is after all this detailed discussion on the forum and the interent in general (babe, they diss Mary Sues like your own Sen here, so unless you've got something constructive to say in defence apart from the reeking "it's all just opinion", then don't waste everyone's time and keep out of the conversation), and just your basic inability to respond with some intelligence. And babe, you know that's mild coming from me, but Yomi here let me step through to show you what his alter-ego is really capable of because yes, he's pissed off at your own self-confessed stupidity , and I'm personally surprised that he hasn't blown it already just like me. Look babe, if you want me to show you a real attack, I'll do it in my own private domain....just a bit busy right now coming up with a new disease and all (hey Pain, is the new one called "Catastrophia"?). So if I were you, don't push it. Yomi: There, you satisfied now? That's the alter-ego out of the bottle - if I really wanted to 'attack' you, as you so seriously[/i] put it, I could easily say a lot of nastier things. Ok? I just have low tolerance for people who want to say a lot of things which don't make much sense and who try to invalidate my statements without strong reasoning. Heck, do you know how frustrating it is to communicate with someone who probably isn't reading this right now because of some 'mysterious' eye problem? Don't get me started about the pithy excuses you're giving me right now - I'm still playing nice. Scrap the "it's all opinion" about whether an OC is a Mary Sues - that's an excuse for crappy authors. Tell me more about these situations where it is acceptable for an OC to have blood relations to an established character. Tell me the situations where it is NOT acceptable. This is a good point you've raised here. I haven't given blood relations much thought (aside from girl being in Kurata clan with Kurapika ) Perhaps you've come across situations where you think it is ok. I'd gladly love to hear them. Yomi
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