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Post by Baka Pixie ^-^ *Kumiko* on Oct 23, 2003 12:39:18 GMT -5
the ways in which i changed included getting a hairstyle that suited my face-shape better (it wasn't a particularly modern or "trendy" hairstyle, just a plain cut that made my face a bit clearer, but before that my hair had been just a bit silly basically, almost a bowl-cut ). people told me i had pretty eyes, so i used mascara and eyeliner to make them stand out. i didn't do it all the time, just when i had a few extra minutes in the morning. i should have been clearer on the personality point. when i first came to london, i couldn't understand people and they couldn't understand me, our accents were so different that communication was a chore that most people couldn't be bothered with. so i made an effort to listen to how the other girls talked, adopt their accents, and i became less shy and introverted, making an effort to smile at people and join in conversations. i didn't say i was one of the girls who need a man to feel safe, although there are millions of them out there. what i meant was that i like having friends and people around me most of the time, i like the warmth and affection of relations with other people, and i've foudn that boyfriends are more affectionate in some ways than girl-friends. they're more likely to give you a hug for no reason, more likely to send you little presents. even though my relationship with my (now ex) boyfriend was very very messed up, i enjoyed the affection that i recieved from it. yes, the transition from country to city had a huge affect on me, but it was more to do with losing all my friends, family, and my home all in the space of two weeks (my parents only told me we were immigrating two weeks before we left). (btw: that picture was taken in a friends bedroom. not that it matters, but just a note). yes i'm into alternative music. dont know what else to say, i think i've answered all the points you've raised.
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
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Post by Yomi on Oct 23, 2003 20:23:30 GMT -5
Hey, I'm glad you're not offended by these questions. Again, any time that you feel I'm just rubbing off the wrong way, say so and I'll zip my trap Who gave you the idea that a bowl-cut was a bit silly? Bowl cuts had actually been a fashion x years ago, but it became apparent that it was quite silly after movies like Dumb and Dumber ( ;D). My highschool didn't allow makeup. They didn't allow more than one earing in one ear - and that earing had to be a stud or a sleeper, and school jumpers cannot be worn in public - either take it off or put your blazer on top, and hair longer than shoulder-length has to be tied up. Urgh...not much space for self expression. Is that more just a change in attitude than personality? When I meet with prospective partners of law firms and I'm sucking up to them to get an articled clerkship, I become less shy and introverted and try to get them to talk to me, but that doesn't mean that my personality has changed. I know how you feel though - moving is hard - I moved from one country to another and couldn't communicate with people either because my English was almost non-existent. Fortunately, I was only six (?), got a lot of attention as my sister and I were the only asians at school, and the teachers were wonderful to us. Gee...I always complain that I'm unlucky...but that suddenly doesn't look that bad... And here I assert a very gross generalization which you can pin me on the dartboard for saying later...but haven't you suspected any other ulterior motives for boys to be more affectionate than girls? Perhaps it's a difference in culture, but girls are very affectionate with each other here in Australia. Do you think that affection must be expressly physical (hugs/gifts)? Could you find something more substantial and lasting from the affection of knowing that someone loves you, cares for you and will be concerned about you if you're unhappy - rather than soft touches, hugs and compliments? Would you settle for thirty general friends or just a handful or very close friends? I've got a few general friends at Uni right now...not that close, more a study-orientated friendship. I guess I can't really empathize with you on this point - I'm actually repulsed by the physical touch, unless it's from someone I know very well. Other than that, I get very...repulsed...when there's skin on skin contact, even on the hand. Imagine our hot summers here - over 40 degrees celcius - and everyone's wearing singlet tops and packed onto a tram... *shudder* If it's still there and you still see it (and hey, you should see all the posters plastered on the walls from the train station to uni here ;D) then we can't really say for certain that we're not being influenced to a certain degree. Did I make this unclear in my previous post that left you open to this interpretation that you had to clarify that it was your friend's bedroom and not yours? Could you please tell me, so that I can work on my expression some more - I hate it when I've made myself unclear. My walls are covered with posters of DBZ, Slam Dunk and YYH. Have't been able to find any Hunter x Hunter posters to put up Yomi
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Post by Mayorie on Oct 24, 2003 13:10:14 GMT -5
Wow! this topic is really heating up.... not that i actually read EVERYTHING, i gave up when i reached page 4 (and i wasn't even able to read the posts thoroughly)... i'm lazy! gomen!
hmm... i must say i agree with everyone. People do get insecure because of men, that and the fact that the media shows us these pictures of thin, shapely and beautiful models and tell us that this is what we should look like to be called 'beautiful'. (i don't think i need to elaborate my defense of this side of the arguement since from what i've read, many are already defending this idea).
but, on the other hand, people also feel insecure from things other than men. i mean, i have this best friend who's as pretty as they come, and she's very popular with boys. but she's one of the most insecure people i've known. she gets her insecurity from the fact that she thinks she's not smart. i know this comes from the fact that since she's very pretty, people stereotype her as being dumb (i don't know where they get their ideas, but i've seen and heard people make remarks about her IQ countless of times, even my cousins make fun of her. and they don't take time to find out that she actually gets high grades). so even though she's not dumb, she thinks she is, no matter how many times i tell her otherwise.
as for me, i've felt the insecurity that comes from the issue of weight. and NOT because of men. i mean, i ask my male friends (during those times when i've gained even the tiniest bit of weight) if i've gained weight, and they always say no (honestly). and when i ask my female friends, they say yes(maybe it comes from the fact that females being weight concious themselves they tend to notice weight gains more). made me realize that more often than not, males can't tell if a girl has gained weight or not (if the weight gain isn't anything extreme). my point is, at those times when i feel insecure because of my weight, its not because i think guys will find me less attractive, but rather because of the weight issue in general. like what people (my crowd, my friends, and other people that see me everyday) will think of me when they see that i've gained weight. my embarassment stems more from being caught (with undeniable evidence!) that i've been undisciplined enough to pig out! lol
there are even times when i get embarassed to show myself to some of my female friends when i've gained weight because i know they'll notice it and tease me about it! heehee...
and i actually have to agree on the whole 'we can fight for men" thing. i mean, hey if you really really like the guy, its okay to primp yourself more than usual to get his attention.
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Oct 24, 2003 18:47:41 GMT -5
Um...what is the weight issue in general? I thought the weight issue in general was to look good - have I missed out on an alternative somewhere? Or are you just talking about peer pressure in general (e.g. I'm ostracized if I don't look like them - type of thing), a pressure to conform? And what is wrong with undisciplined pigging out? ( )Because by gods you should see me pigging out come exam time when I'm stressing. Um...what's the negative connotation that comes with pigging out again?
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Post by Baka Pixie ^-^ *Kumiko* on Oct 24, 2003 19:36:41 GMT -5
negative connatations associated with pigging out = exactly that, becoming animal like and inhuman.
yomi: no, u didn't make it unclear, i was just saying. yes, you do see them, no matter where they are, but theres a difference between seeing them and pickign them out.
alterior motives? not with me. boys seem happy enough to give me a hug or a cuddle, but no one has ever attempted to get any further, and it's nothign to do wiht me being "tight" or a "prude". if anyone bothered to scratch the surface they'd know i am a complete slut. but they dont, so blah.
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Yomi
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Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Oct 24, 2003 20:14:52 GMT -5
Why use the damn pig! I was BORN the year of the pig thanks and there's nothing wrong with 'pigging' out - I'm sure a lot of other animals have sloppier eating methods. No! It certainly can't be because pigs are generally perceived to be FAT and UNATTRACTIVE now could it!? Stupid general perception on pigs... I hear they're smarter than dogs, you hear me!!So why aren't there any negative connotations with 'monkey bars' - they used to say that I swing like a monkey on them, but they seemed to make it as a compliment. I was VERY good on the monkey bars - anyone know the 'Waterfall' move? lol Sorry...but I don't understand the distinction you're making with the 'seeing' and 'picking'. Pick what? Did you use 'tight' and 'prude' in the negative sense? Because I hear it used that way all the time (along with 'frigid', 'nun' etc). Why is there some negative connotation and a specific label for a woman who doesn't like to be sexually intimate with a man? Or why is there the label 'slut' when a woman takes control and exploits her sexual liberation? Ok, ok... the slut image is gradually receeding I think because the character 'Samantha' from Sex and the City has a different man almost every episode and we think of her as 'cool' and not some morally deprived, shameful creature (although most of the episodes are written by men so is Samantha really a figurehead for the modern woman or just a creation of male fantasies?). I think Miss America (is there a Teen America?) was also promoting celibacy (as a form of birth control) and tried to make it look 'cool' to stay a virgin until you're into your twenties. That means there was a negative implication about a lack of sexual activity in the first place. If a woman's not 'doing it' with a man, gees, that's got to be wrong Damn...you can almost find a feminist perspective on any issue. Don't get me started about the glass ceiling or the fact that the there is no female judge in the highest court of our country Yay, plenty of promotion opportunities for me in the future then! *sob* Yomi
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Post by Mayorie on Oct 25, 2003 12:50:25 GMT -5
hahaha there's nothing really wrong with pigging out. But people don't usually think like that! at least not the peole in my crowd. its a sign of undiscipline, its not healthy, especially if you get really really fat from it. and you said something about not fitting in? well, you just showed another point where people can feel insecure about their looks WITHOUT connecting it with men! (ok, before you all get angry, i would like you to note that the '!' i used at the end of my sentence means 'enthusiasm' not anger or any other negative emotion. i don't want to turn this into a fight! Yikes!!!! *runs*) Maybe i was talking about peer pressure. though i'm still not sure if that's exactly all there is to it. i was just stating an example based from my personal experience,but lets just call it peer pressure for now. and the weight issue in general? YES its about looks, but you completely missed my point. its about looks, but not confining looks to only what men think about it. i meant that i feel insecure NOT because guys will find me less appealing, they hardly notice it when i gain weight, (although to some, that might be a valid enough reason. and its not a bad thing, i'm just saying that its just not applicable in my case) but because what my peers will think. so i just wanted to say that the weight issue (and the insecurity it generates) not only comes from the opinion of guys but also to the opinions of people in general (i'm not making much sense am i?... eeep... ;D) and the bad connotation about pigs? *shrugs* well, i really didn't consider that when i used the term pigging out. i just used a term that i was familar with. i'm born under the year of the pig too, and i happen to like pigs (hey, i even named my site 'piggy's world' refering to me as the pig! but not because it has anything to do with looks, merely refering to my being born under that particualr chinese zodiac). but you can't deny that its a term that's usually being used. so pardon me if you took offense from my using it. would you like me to change it to "overeating"? i don't have a problem with that. i don't have that much attachment with the words i use, just the meaning behind them. LOL so if it really means that much to you, i'll change it to 'OVEREATING'. or did you want to use another term for it? coz i don't know what else to use... i'm running out of words!!!! i'm open to suggestions? god knows i don't want to offend anyone... just adding some information of my own to help clear up this already confusing topic. hee hee... ;D ;D ;D although from the look of it, i'm not really that much help. *sniffle*
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Yumiko
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Post by Yumiko on Oct 25, 2003 18:31:38 GMT -5
I had recently been on a 19 hell camp...more like a boot camp ^^;; and lost about 5 kg, I feel really great about myself when 'S' and 12 size clothes actually fitted me ^^;; and I feel great when I accomplished the goal of this camp...I thought I would never be able to do it, but I did it so I'm going to tell everyone: EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLEIt's going to be my motto from now on I feel very proud of myself when I finished that camp and I'm sure people who have low-selfesteem can go higher by setting a goal for yourself! Yea I don't see anything wrong with pigging out...but I always exercise after I pig out ^^;;
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Yomi
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Post by Yomi on Oct 25, 2003 22:59:29 GMT -5
I did? I'm unaware of it - or my expression must have come out wrong (again). No one has ever been able to answer these questions: 1) why do we need good looks? 2) who/what defines what 'good' is? 3) who/what are good looks for? 4) is there any other implied meaning in good looks? There are probably two or more answers to each of these questions, but I see some answers have more weight and significance than others. If peer pressure is the only reason for you to conform to the standard - then why are the other girls setting the bar for you to match? And how are they setting it? This question is not just 'you' --> it's about how the entertainment industry (actors, singers) have affected society as a whole and why we have cases of low self-esteem. No matter how you put it, one way or another, you're going to be able to link the (major) cause as the projection of a model figure that is portrayed as 'sexy' and 'attractive' --> who for? The men Hope I've managed to clarify myself a bit more now. So please - if you're unsure about what I said, rather than interpret me (since it's not like I'm dead or not around or anything), ask before you put more words in my mouth Half of my words about pigging out were said in jest - I can't believe that didn't come out either. But there's nothing wrong with overeating so long as we're not overweight to the point of unhealthiness. If the food's there, you like it, you're a bit hungry, bloody eat it - why are we made to feel guilty or ugly or 'animalistic' just because we want to be more than slightly full (without being unhealthy)? Does that mean you'll not feel good about yourself if you have to fit into a medium? *sigh* if your body is healthy, be proud of the way it is already - why should skinniness give you happiness? Yomi
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Yumiko
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Post by Yumiko on Oct 26, 2003 0:35:24 GMT -5
oh hohoho I'm still not skinny, still quite chubby ^^;; Yes I was quite healthy before I lost weight...but still I'm human ^^;;
I forgot to add, I didn't just lost weight but also becoming fitter than I was before. I can actually run 200m without wheezing like an old man.
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Yomi
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Post by Yomi on Oct 26, 2003 0:55:03 GMT -5
LOL you'd think I was dying if I ran 200m. Yeah - gotta put on the runners and think about a jogging track to work the lungs and heart before it gets too hot over here.
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Post by Mayorie on Oct 26, 2003 5:40:10 GMT -5
uh... i didn't exactly feel unsure about what you said. that's why i didn't feel the need to ask. and i wasn't exactly putting words into your mouth, more like its what i thought you were saying.
like you said "my expression must have come out wrong (again)" heehee... maybe people have trouble understanding what you're saying. gomen! and looks like i'm one of them.
uh.. what i was trying to say was that 'peer pressure' is another source of insecurity aside from men. if you don't fit in, you feel insecure. and why do we need to look good? i mainly do it to feel good. when i see myself looking good, i feel good, more confident about myself (me being the judge whether i look good or not).
who defines what 'good' is? everyone, including me! its not mainly the men who dish out compliments you know. my girlfriends or other female acquaintances also say something when they feel that i look nice (hey, most guys don't even know what fashion is! at least female fashion. so the main point the girls in crowd dress up and primp themselves is to 'flaunt' themselves to other females.).
what are good looks for? for me? heehee... i do it mainly so that i'll feel even better! not that its the only source of confidence, but hey, if people compliment you, it can't help but add to your confidence ne?
'is there any other implied meaning in good looks?' i don't know about the others, but for me, its the whole look. not just your weight, but how you carry yourself and dress yourself as well. i mean, i know people who are chubby by society's standards and still look great! and there are people who are sooo pretty and are so slim but can't dress themselves. and there are people who have weird fashion tastes but can carry off the look so no matter how weird their clothes are, they still look great!
uh... am i misinterpretting you again or are there some negative vibes in that statement? what i mean is, were you offended or angry?.. GOMEN!!!!! like i said, i don't want to offend anyone!
*sigh* ok, what i've been trying to say all along is that i agree with BOTH sides. i just didn't feel the need to defend the side where men are the source of insecurity coz its already well defended. but you SEEM (i may be misinterpretting you again. heehee) to be saying that you're not accepting any other points other than that--that men are the ONLY source of insecurity among women.
so yomi-san, are you saying that men the only sources of insecurity in women? (just want to make sure. heehee)
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Yomi
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Post by Yomi on Oct 26, 2003 8:54:10 GMT -5
Trust me - if you want negative vibes coming from me, I wouldn't merely use "put words in my mouth". You just missed the point of my question - who determine's the bar that you have to raise yourself to? And if you had gone through my post with a finer tooth comb, I was never dealing with the individual causes of low self-esteem but the general effects AND the ripple effects where you have to make possibly one or two extra steps to come back to the intial cause of it all - and I blame the entertainment industry. This has been heralded as the age of individualism - and it's strange that we are still afraid to 'break from the trend and stand out' a bit more. Who gives us that pressure that you SHOULD go with the crowd? How many movies and ads have you seen where there's an aspiringly beautiful and trendy group where membership is utterly desirable? Of course, conformity is not based on looks - it could be based on ideology (Nazi Germany or Communist China anyone?) but in the simple school context - it's more to do with the image and fashion trend set by you-know-who. I went through one of the most exclusive private girl's schools in the state, so I should know You may have missed this because I only clarified it in my previous posts. My argument was that with technology and communications as they are today, constantly beaming us messages and images, can we truly say that our perception of 'good looking' really isn't influenced by what we see? I answer in the negative: that could be because I'm either a realist or a cynic or a bit of both. When it comes to dealing with malicious and manipulative PR and media, I spare no optimism. And is it necessarily a good thing that your positive vibes and your confidence is based on looks? Looks change and beauty fades in time - so rather than age gracefully, will you be one of the women who will resort to botox injections so that you can continue to feel good and confident about yourself? I have already mentioned this earlier as well.... Forgive me when I say this and I try not to be mean, but I am nearing the end of my patience here because I have already addressed this in my last post...for your convenience, I'll re-quote myself and underline the words you should pay particular attention to: You never dealt with the issue of the impact as a WHOLE - you consider your own perspective, but you don't consider your part in the greater picture. Think about the reason why you'd have insecurities if you were set apart and ostracized in a society where we are supposedly encouraged to be ourselves, love ourselves and stay true to ourselves. Have you seen the movie About a Boy? The boy is ostracised in the beginning for his 'daggy' haircut, his 'poor taste in fashion' and his 'wrong choice in music'. At the end of the movie however, he's popular and accepted at school because he's got slick and gelled hair, he's got name-brand sneakers and he listens to angry rap. --> what kind of conclusions can you draw from that? (I was actually disappointed by this ending...but oh well). I don't think I can say any more of the above any clearer I'm afraid. If I do explain again, I'll just be repeating myself and I'm sure Calliston will tell me off for it. I understand your points, but this is my answer to your points (or rather more questioning leading you to my answer), so in the end: you take it or leave it. I've said a lot of things, as have azile, and half of them no one's said anything about - namely the crux of our arguments. so just as you know: this isn't some condemnation on you girls or anything about conforming to fashion, wearing the right clothes and getting into the right look so you're part of the trend (set by you-know-who). I think I'm finally starting to understand Calliston's anger towards azile because she struck home on a lot of issues - we might want to say that we're proud of our bodies, but a small voice always says in the back of our minds that we can look better if we do some situps and tone up the stomach. Hey - that's NOT your fault and if you want to fit into a mini or a low vneck top, you're at FULL AND UTTER LIBERTY to do so. Either azile or I must have used the word 'victim' in here somewhere (if anyone's got time to sort through all the gook) - some of us recognize it, some don't, some angrily deny it and say that we'd all be ungirly man-women if we confront the forces that be. The great dream of the twentieth century was individualism - that we can be who we want to be - wear what we want but if you're satisfied with conforming to a set trend, that's entirely your right --> but I only do hope that it's YOUR satisfaction, and not some satisfaction that you've been misled into feeling through the images constantly all around you. Well - I don't think I can say anymore - so here is my finale (yes, you may all now give a sigh of relief ). Some people with personal issues of angry denial might still disagree, but I don't want to end up sounding like a broken tape recorder anymore. Say what you will - all my words are here so one way or another, I'm pretty sure I have already made a response...somewhere in all these words. Yomi
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Post by Killua's gf on Jul 12, 2004 2:20:49 GMT -5
We had a self-esteem test on our guidance class and among my friends, I have the highest self-esteem.
My secret is being contented with my life and looking at the good side instead of the bad.
I study in a prestigous school where most of my schoolmates are wealthy. Being in a not-so-rich family surrounded by rick kids, I can't help but compare myself. My classmates even tease me as weird. Plus, I was never good at anything.
BUt I learned to love myself for who I am. I can not change the fact that we are not rich, instead I stopped comparing myself to others. I befriended the few people that are not rich in our school so we won't have any problems treating ourselves as equals. I don't know why people call me weird, I tried changing myself from being weird to normal but the teasing didn't stop so instead, I learned to embrace myself and think that I am simply unique and original. I learned to excel in art, I became the best in my school and me being "unique" helped a lot because it made my painting unique.
I also learned to look at the bright side and took other people's criticisms to change myself for the better. I also kept in mind that noone is perfect.
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Post by Chibiwonton on Jul 15, 2004 23:43:48 GMT -5
I honestly think your perspective on your own self esteem is wonderful. No one is ever satisfied with themselves these days...but gladly you were honest enough to admit it!!
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