azile
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Posts: 29
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Post by azile on Oct 19, 2003 0:34:11 GMT -5
gah...i shouldn't have sounded so harsh myself. it's just that what you said is stuff which i've been saying to my older sister for years. she hasn't got eating disorder or anything but every day without fail she complains about how much she has eaten or that her pants are starting to be too tight or how she can't wear half of her clothes because she doesn't look good in them. the pressure to look good IS there - she's a smart and intelligent woman who is about to become a registered pharmacist at the end of the year but she has a healthy body yet wishes she were still thinner. she says of renee in bridget jones diary that she isn't big at all and is a beautiful person yet just somehow cannot apply it to herself.
media and image works in very subtle ways to attack the subconscious side of us. if you take out boys in the equation and say 'i'm too fat', either way, it is society pressuring you to look a certain way in order to qualify for 'beauty'.
the fact my parents expected me to be perfect, i became anorexic at the age of 9.
sorry to raise this once more, but kumiko, why do you attribute perfection with being skinny? this is the point that few of us have been trying to make.
azzy
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Post by Calliston on Oct 19, 2003 1:43:15 GMT -5
Well, it's just that while I do agree that the pressure is definetely there, we have to realize something though.
If a boy told a girl that she looked bad, he would get his ass handed on a platter, either by her or her friends. Different scenario if it's your boyfriend though. That gets really ugly.
But if a girl tells a girl she's ugly, the girl takes it to heart a bit more. When it comes to the self-esteem issue, I think girls pit themselves against others for the - surprise - ability to compete with men. Sometimes. Other times, it's to cover for their own insecurities.
Also, if a person does end up competing for a man, I think she would have better qualities than a pair of silicone boobs.
And I have not found a single ounce of perfection in the world, other than something being content with the imperfect. I'm sorry, but the media is LYING. LYING!!! There is no ideal body, because we are all too different.
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azile
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Post by azile on Oct 19, 2003 2:41:15 GMT -5
If a boy told a girl that she looked bad, he would get his ass handed on a platter, either by her or her friends.
and even after that, the malicious message lingers in the mind and begins to foster doubts and insecurities. you don't need a boy to tell you you look ugly - you only need to make constant comparisons between yourself and the 'hot' women that the media promotes to derogate what pride and confidence you initially had.
But if a girl tells a girl she's ugly, the girl takes it to heart a bit more. When it comes to the self-esteem issue, I think girls pit themselves against others for the - surprise - ability to compete with men. Sometimes.
well, i'm glad you finally see our point. so you see - unlike your first post which sent silva sun ranting, to a large extent, image and self-esteem is heavily connected to men.
, if a person does end up competing for a man, I think she would have better qualities than a pair of silicone boobs.
that's the 'perfect world' i was speaking about...i don't know...4 posts ago, but i'm still glad you finally see the ideology. unfortunately, the world largely doesn't work like that and image plays a major role.
I'm sorry, but the media is LYING. LYING!!! There is no ideal body, because we are all too different.
and rather than tell girls to find something better to do in their time instead of whinge about their looks, we should actively try to deconstruct the media image. but you'll be going up against institutions like hollywood and the economics of marketing, which = impossible task.
a kind of world with these sorts of pressures is screwed enough for me thank you.
after all this time, you've finally caught up to what we were getting at. congratulations - here's your feminist tag - now spread the truth about the falsity of the media image of women.
azzy
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Post by Baka Pixie ^-^ *Kumiko* on Oct 19, 2003 7:26:33 GMT -5
"child modelling, dancing and gymnastics are all inextricably linked with weight and image. when i talked about anorexia i generalized to a certain extent in that it not only occurs to girls obsessed with image. ballet dancers and gymnasts in particular also suffer from weight disorders as their sports require it of them to be light and petite. in the case of ballet however, the stick figure with long arms and small torso is STILL considered the image of beauty and i wonder whether this has any application to gymnastics or not."
at the young age when i was involved in these activities, a slim body wasn't amphasized or needed. i stopped ballet at age 7, too young to be told to lose weight. for modelling i had to put ON weight before I got signed, because they said i looked too scrawny and unhealthy. i wasn't, i was just too stringy and muscly from farm work ;D gymnastics stopped when i was 7 as well, and dance (althought being in a small way linked to what started my ED's) didn't have very much to do with anything.... there were some overweight girls in my squad, and they were NEVER asked to lose weight, even thoguh some of them did because they acknowledged it would help them.
"what was the reasoning behind your conviction to loose weight? you were bullied and taunted because of...? and so you thought the solution was to loose weight."
eating disorders aren't logical. my brain told me that i wasn't perfect... there was somethign wrong. i had already changed my personality, what else could there be? it had to be my appearance. i couldn't change my face, so i needed to lose weight. this wasn't the only thing i did. i wore make-up, i cut my hair in a style that suited me better..... but the thing i could track most easily was weight. it was the easiest to control and keep count of. it was also the first thing most people saw. unfortunately.
"and what would you do to get them interested in you? loose more weight?"
yes. that was exactly what i did. my mind just told me that this would work somehow. for instance, i love someone right now, and he doens't pay that much attention to me, doesn't really "see" me at all. he has a girlfriend, and she has been described by the most kind person ever as "chubby". but i'm, still convinced that losing weight will make me MORE attractive to him. even though i have extensive evidence that he prefers "round" girls. unfortunately i've been very ill recently, i ended up in hospital at one point, and when i saw him yesterday the first thing he said to me when he hugged me was "you've lost weight". it's sad, but this comment will probably be my main insperation for a long time. but such is the way.
"that was the entire crux of yomi's original comment. much of what we've said so far as been unfairly general and i recognize that there are cases like you but that doesn't mean that anything else we've said is untrue either."
of course it doesn't. dont worry. i understand that there are a few things which can have many different faces. just because my case is different, doesn't mean you're wrong at all.
"hon, why do you feel that you need a boyfriend to validate your existence as a female? "
i dont. it's just nice to have someone to hug and hang around with. as a person i constantly crave affection. not validation. just affection. and i've found that i trust boys more than girls. a womens existence isn't defined by her marital status, but for some girls, happiness is.
"you say that your problems have nothing to do with boys and society, yet your post has talked on bitterly about these two subjects. treat it as a mental exercise - what would you think your life'd be like if you didn't have to worry about being able to find a man interested in you? --> for a lot of us, it'd mean that we'd no longer have to worry about who our big nose is going to repulse or who's going to laugh at our huge thighs. what about you?"
i dont do this for boys or men. i do this because what i see in the mirror disgusts me. even if i lived on an island by myself and never had human contact, i would consider it a failure to eat. at all. for me, failure is every mouthful of food i consume. success is stomach grumbles and throwing up. sorry to be crude, but it's the way i feel.
meh... *rubs forehead* happy birthday AOW...
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azile
Amateur Otaku
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Post by azile on Oct 20, 2003 4:10:03 GMT -5
i had a lot to say in response to your contradictory post, but on reflection, i will not. even though i could link back your ideas and thoughts back to image, i thought I should forego my pride in proving myself right for the second time for a number of reasons - one being that you are still unable to talk about this forthright and two, who am i to tell you that your confessions contain elements of denial. --> no, forget it, i'm not a professional counsellor and you think you know yourself, so irregardless of whether an outsider can sometimes interpret the situation with more clarity, it doesn' t matter.
on the other hand, about your so-called boyfriend - he's a piece of scum. ditch him and get yourself a dog. you're only 15 - think about your studies, go to the movies with your friends, go out to lunch with them. what makes you think that a boy's 'companionship' at 15 will be stronger or better than that of your girlfriends? i spot an appalling number of contradictions with your latest post and your previous one - i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not making up the story, but the contradictions are glaring and unnerving. get the damn dog - a dog will love you unconditionally and won't say "i prefer my masters chubby, but oh well, guess you'll do".
everyday, you've got to get up in the morning and say: i don't have to change my looks for anyone and i will not go about changing my looks for anyone. as one female to another, that's all i can say to you without treading on other sensitive issues. focus on your studies, enrich your mind with knowledge to allow you to live independently in the world and forget about the ridiculous idea that you need a boyfriend at this stage. i've been through one of the bitchiest private schools in my state so i know how girls are unkind to each other, but...i thought you said you had a good group of friends...either way, ignore the ugly side of life if it depresses you and concentrating on studies does wonders for your mind and soul.
azzy
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introspectivegirl
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Writers sit around in their underwear all day. There all perverts.
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Post by introspectivegirl on Oct 21, 2003 21:14:05 GMT -5
Hello to all who don't know me. I just wanted to throw in some of my opinions.
Sannie as you've mentioned above in your poem, women get scolded when they try to get some. Even now there isn't as much equality as we would all like, even in religion it's always the woman that screws up everything. Take Adam and Eve for example, Eve was the one who tempted Adam with the apples, got themselves thrown out of Eden and doomed all of man kind. Pandora was the one who opened the box and let all the famine and suffering out.
Of course woman are getting more respect these days but sometimes it's not enough.
Girls are more pressured into perfection than boys. The bar has been raised and we're rushing to meet the challenge. Girls need to be smart, successful, beautiful basically well rounded. The men have always been taught to find a wife, have kids, and consistently put food on the table. Yes it is an excuse, but I believe that the rate of self esteem goes down as the bar to perfection is going up. Girls constantly compare themselves to their friends, (even the most self confident ones) and when they don't measure up, obviously they feel bad; Girls will go to drastic measures to get back up there, things they know are bad for them.
I'm of the opinion that girls with low self esteem definetly should not get surgery. If looks are all the can rely on for them to feel good about themselves, of course it's not right for them. Girls who have average or high self-esteem should be able to have that option. If there's something you don't like, change it. I don't see why you can't, it makes them feel more attractive, happier, have more confidence.
Girls wear make up all the time, mascara lengthens your eyelashes, lipstick changes your lip color. Surgery is just the next step.
Guys can score a lot and it does give them a bad reputation. A guy who cheats to get a lot of girls into bed is going to scare off a lot of the girls. They're more aware of his history and are more likely to avoid him. If a girl has the confidence to do that and is able to take the critism, rumors and such than she should feel free too. If you don't have what it takes to pull it off, and feel good about yourself afterwards, you shouldn't try it in the first place.
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Post by Calliston on Oct 21, 2003 21:50:58 GMT -5
I agree with that. But I think there is more than one way to change how you look. No putting on different eyeshadow in the morning will not give you those stunning cheeks bones as Penelope Cruz, but you know what? I bet there's more than one way to get closer to them than putting silicone in your cheeks.
And azile? Yes, the message that girls need to look good is there. You've said it atleast seven different times. Stop acting like you've convinced me that you're morally right as well. The world is screwed up, yes, but what's what makes it worth while. The Perfect Land would send me screaming for the hills with a gun to my head.
No I am not saying that the media and some girls claiming that we have to look/be perfect are right. They're wrong, and we know it.
And here's my feminist tag? What the hell is that supposed to mean? "Oh look, she finally realizes that the entire world is shallow and screwed. She gets to be recognized as feminist."
Yeah, yipee for me. Alot that means coming from somebody who claims that the society is fucked. What do you mean by feminist? Somebody who completely rejects being girly?
Yes, surgery is just the next step. It's right after we wax, trim, clip and starve. I mean, is that the best we can come up with? If the media wants us to look fucking fantabulous, I wonder why they didn't invent a way better than cutting open our legs and vacuuming the fat. Actually, that sounds like a great idea. I'll do that after I swear my eternal allegiance to my idiot of a boyfriend and become a blonde to become a cheerleader.
Introspectivegirl, when you said "have what it takes" what did you mean by that? You mean the looks or the confidence?
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introspectivegirl
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Writers sit around in their underwear all day. There all perverts.
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Post by introspectivegirl on Oct 21, 2003 22:06:44 GMT -5
No! Not the looks for sure. I mean the confidence, the attitude. You know, willing to defend who you are. Not having to justify yourself because you know how you feel, and your self aware and you won't be brought down because of other people's opinions. Yes you should always take other people's opinions into consideration, but when there just mindlessly bashing you, no way you should you take them seriously.
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Post by Calliston on Oct 21, 2003 22:12:11 GMT -5
Yes ma'am. ;D
I guess that means us walking away from the media, hm?
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azile
Amateur Otaku
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Post by azile on Oct 21, 2003 23:09:16 GMT -5
And azile? Yes, the message that girls need to look good is there. You've said it atleast seven different times. Stop acting like you've convinced me that you're morally right as well.
as i said, accord this fact its fair weight and significance and don't let you petty pride of having been defeated in an argument get in your way of understanding this point. if it'll make you feel better and less humiliated, i'll stop saying anymore if you'll appreciate the gravity of this message which you seem to dismiss as 'mere.'
on the other hand, i do believe i have convinced you that i'm morally right - making girls not love their bodies is wrong. you can't argue against that but you did, and you didn't even know who was doing it or why girls have poor self esteem in the first place. excuse me whilst I backtrack a bit...this is what you originally jumped into the argument with :
What on EARTH does it have to do with men?
wow. looks like you've come a long way from that misguided statement. except you don't want to admit that we had a hand in helping you understand it, tortuous as this path has been given your final and rather unfair outburst against me. i've already overlooked the fact that you never had answers to half the things i've said - i've answered all your hypotheticals and all you ever do is come up with lame excuses, going so far as to 'tell off' girls who are influenced by media and image and retracting it when u realized ur mistake.
you've finally understood our views yet you continue to demean their worth without substantive reasoning. is this because of your pride that won't let you say: i was wrong to say what i said in the first place? i never saw this as remotely competitive but ur consistent negative and dismissive attitude towards this rather serious subject left me to doubt whether you're trying to defend your own insecurities or something. perhaps you don't 'kick ass' the way your profess to do, but that's ok. we all have self doubts about our image, but it's nothing to get so defensive about just because we say we shouldn't be having these self doubts.
be a bit more mature and realize that there are older people out there with more experience of the world than you so inevitably their reasoning is more persuasive. you show graciousness if you accept and learn and ask a few more questions than to bite back with these callous and unjust remarks.
The Perfect Land would send me screaming for the hills with a gun to my head.
your bitter, bitter sarcasm is deluding what common sense you have left. you'd realize that in the Perfect Land, all women can be proud of their bodies without the need to alter it and will love it and thus there will be no eating disorders and whatnot. in this perfect land, men will judge women by their personality and not their looks. and this sort of land would send you 'screaming for the hills with a gun to your head'? are u sure you're thinking right? or are u more concerned with coming back at me with flashy one-liners or something, because this sentence alone basically destroyed any sympathy you pretend to show for the plight of women with low self-esteem. more and more, and with lines like these, i'm thinking that u only give mere lip service to the concept of pressure on girls to look good. that's not just your tragedy - it's a tragedy for all women that there are females like u who would think this way. i really hear your insecurities crying here and i'm starting to feel sorry for you.
And here's my feminist tag? What the hell is that supposed to mean? "Oh look, she finally realizes that the entire world is shallow and screwed. She gets to be recognized as feminist."
Yeah, yipee for me. Alot that means coming from somebody who claims that the society is fucked. What do you mean by feminist? Somebody who completely rejects being girly?
i don't understand your last paragraph but i suspect u don't understand much of what you're talking yourself. this is some bitter loser talking here, and i wonder why u resort to such harsh and derogatory words against me. when have i ever mocked you to deserve this? and u say we should come to you when we have problems on the forum when you deal with yours with crude and offensive rudeness.
feminism isn't a thing to be disgusted by - as is the idea that men try to propagate these days. by feminism, it doesn't mean you never get married or reject men or you have to reject being girly, as you've been ashamedly misled to believe. feminism means to realize the inequality of status and power that women are still subject to in this world, that we are still being pushed around by men and are subtly pressured into altering our bodies to suit their ideals and desires. if you're offended by that, then i don't see how you've really taken in anything that i've said....for like seven times already. do you really think i would have needed to say it in different forms seven times if you could understand it in one go?
Yes, surgery is just the next step. It's right after we wax, trim, clip and starve. I mean, is that the best we can come up with? If the media wants us to look fucking fantabulous, I wonder why they didn't invent a way better than cutting open our legs and vacuuming the fat. Actually, that sounds like a great idea. I'll do that after I swear my eternal allegiance to my idiot of a boyfriend and become a blonde to become a cheerleader.
wow, you're resorting to an unreasaonable literal interpretation of my words in a lame attempt to make me look stupid or something. and you still don't get the point - there ARE probably blondes who are cheerleaders who go to such lengths to look 'fucking fantabulous' because this 'fucked up' society has eroded their self esteem to the point where they feel it is necessary to do so. what now, are you going to scold those bimbos for being stupid and weak again? where's your sympathy and compassion for less fortunate women?
oh - and liposuction IS vacuming away the fat, although given the levels of obesity in western society, i guess it does achieve certain health benefits. but collagen injections and what not...it's no longer as simple as applying a layer of makeup that can be washed away with some make-up remover. whilst concessions are made for fashion and accessories and other things to change our outer physical appearances, going beneath the skin and undergoing surgery for looks cannot be seen as anything BUT morally disturbing.
Girls wear make up all the time, mascara lengthens your eyelashes, lipstick changes your lip color. Surgery is just the next step.
lipstick and mascara don't permantly alter or damage the body though, so how could you say that surgery, where they cut you open and inject things into your body (or take out things for that matter) be seen as ok? if women really want bigger breasts, i'd recommended the gel filled bra or the air pump one that julia roberts used in 'erin brokovich' over surgery; but if i had my way, i'd rather say: your body is healthy and that's all that matters.
azzy
[Edit] PS - I really don't mean to pursue this point to make you look bad or anything Calliston, but you still haven't answered my question (and I'm still highly curious) but: u made a comment that I sounded like I was talking out of a textbook. ever feel like telling me how that's a negative? coz i can't see to work it out and i'm sure u put that up as some sort of defense....
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Yomi
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Post by Yomi on Oct 22, 2003 1:01:50 GMT -5
Calliston - try not to get angry at azile, especially with the feminist remark. I don't know who taught you to think that being labelled a feminist carried negative implications and connotations, but whoever taught you that, they're sadly mistaken. It's thanks to feminism that we can all freely go to school and become educated and literate without stigma. It's thanks to feminism that we can be proud to flaunt our bodies and openly discuss 'taboo' topics such as our periods, puberty and say the word 'vagina' in public without someone telling us to wash out your mouth with soap. Before the feminist movement, women had always been forced to cover their bodies - and you can still see this happening in some third world countries today e.g. the Taliban forced women to cover themselves up or get shot. Unfortunately, and this has not been denied, the female body is now seen as some marketable commodity and of course, sex sells, to the erosion of a woman's dignity.
Rethink your bitter sarcasm over the 'feminist tag' quote - it's nothing to be angry over, disgusted by or upset with. It's a compliment.
Introspective, the next question to ask here would be the definition of 'attractive', and more specifically, who defines it. I'm all in favour of women doing things of their own free will - I don't scorn women for going on a diet (cut back on soft drinks and fast food and junk) and doing runs three times a week if it will give them a healthier body thus a more enjoyable life (I should be doing that too). But can we really say that we diet and define 'attractive' of our own free and uncluttered will or are there numerous other forces at play influencing what we believe to be attractive? And if there are people playing a role in the definition of 'attractive', who are they, and what are their agendas?
Then the next question to also consider would be - is our happiness dependent upon image? Are we unable to achieve this level of happiness any other way than to put ourselves under the surgeon's knife? If I throw in a little optimism, I'd like to say that we should derive our happiness from our love for our family, friends, our health and perhaps the success of our careers. 'Image' should not really be in the same equation as 'what makes us happy'. We should consider our bodies to be beautiful and be proud of it - but something seems to be interfering with the love that we should be giving our body and a lot of people blame the media/Hollywood portrayal of the desired woman. --> this discussion has now reached full circle.
In the end, no matter how creatively you or Calliston attempt to frame this argument, it always goes back to whether the individual really acts of her own will. If you believe you enhance your looks - slim down, dress up - according to what YOU define to be beautiful, no one is stressing or getting worked up. Me being on the paranoid side however believe that unfortunately we're all not entirely free to say that being a size 14 (which is healthy and not overweight) is beautiful because some male executive for Ralph decided to stick in a size 6 chick wearing a poor excuse of a bikini in their perfume add. Having seen this add - and making note of the powerful arms of media and communication these days with the aid of technology such as the internet and television - one really wonders whether their vision of 'attractive' or 'beautiful' is really their own or just a mass-conceived substitute.
We can't walk away from the media, because technology is always a step ahead of us. I log into yahoo mail, and am presented with underwear advertisements featuring the slim and well endowed women. And that's only checking my mail! What hope could I possibly have to defend myself against the powerful advertising machines such as Hollywood, MTV and the fashion industry who propogate these images. The only possible solution short of demolishing these institutions would be to actively assert that our happiness or confidence is not and should not be dependent on the new image that plastic surgery can create and that not only is the media detrimental to the psychology of young and vulnerable girls, we should actively seek to condemn it.
On the other hand, SilvaSun and I have chosen an alternative path to deal with the image problem. We see it as being linked to appeal for the opposite sex, therefore we reject them, thus cutting back on the need to appeal. I don't expect this solution to appeal to many people but it is a solution nonetheless.
Have heart, be strong, feel good for yourself and lets not cave in to the lies that Hollywood churns out on a fortnightly basis.
Study time for me too.
Yomi
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Yomi
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Post by Yomi on Oct 22, 2003 9:09:21 GMT -5
ouch, this one's a sting, and I don't know what Liz did to deserve this kind of treatment Cal: I finally got a chance to read through the posts and have an interpretation for you Liz. Perhaps Calliston was trying to say that since you think the world is such a messed up place, you shouldn't be telling people to challenge the forces influencing us to look skinny. Now really Calliston, is this kind of comment called for, you being a moderator especially, provoking other members with these sorts of comments? And yes, it still means a lot, especially because the world is demented in so many ways (Bush is president of America - I think that says enough already). Just because the picture of image, media, self-esteem, sex and sex appeal is so overwhelmingly bleak doesn't mean you can't take a stand. One more person is better than none. Are you afraid that by spreading the word, Calliston, that boys will look at you as some kind of lesbian feminist? Guess who propogated that perspective as well. The fact is, you know you're fit, you're comfortable with your image because you probably come close to the media ideal and you'll have no trouble or problems with the opposite sex. Half the time in your replies, you sound like the issues which girls with low self-esteem have are a waste of your time and not your problem. It's great that you can shrug off the pressures but try to empathize with those who can't. Since you haven't been able to demonstrate a firm grasp of the roots of the cumulative problems with society contributing to eating disorders and the like, you don't need to add anything - just constantly tell the girls that we are all beautiful as we are already. Please forego your nasty attitude that you've fostered for this thread. Azile's dogmatic and hard to shake off, and I sense your frustrations (I do, I really do because I see her every day), but she has a point, and a good one. If you're afraid to become a vocal feminist rallying for other women to burn magazines with skinny models and don't like to publically denounce blatant media and advertising strategies that use scantily clad women and men in blatant sexual positions, that's ok. But don't come back with horrid messages to those who are vocal about female equality by hurtfully branding them as being not girly - as azile has made clear that she adheres strongly to feminist values, I do believe that you meant that as a personal attack against her. I think an apology from you is in order.
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Post by Baka Pixie ^-^ *Kumiko* on Oct 22, 2003 11:33:31 GMT -5
ok, just an ickle note; can everyone stop attacking each other and ordering everyone about please? call me young, naive and unwordly if thats what you believe, but can we please remember that calli-sama is human too, and liable to experience human emotions. for her to "attack" when she feels something needs to be defended is natural. and ordering someone to apologize is not the best way to get them to comply. apologies are in order form other people, but i dont see anyone telling them what to do, so why dont we all just stop acting like bitches?
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Yomi
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Post by Yomi on Oct 22, 2003 21:55:35 GMT -5
kumiko, you're the first person I know who's taken "x is in order" literally. Like, seriously literally. I'm not ordering anyone around, nor do I even pretend that I can. The tone of my post should have been clear had you not been deaf to your own bias. "an apology is in order" means that an apology is appropriate in this case.
And since you seem to know Calliston so well, enlighten me - what was she defending that she felt she needed to resort to harsh words and expletives? Because from what I've read, Cal appears to be on the same wavelength as azile half the time but for some reason reverts back to being demeaning and dismissive when Introspectivegirl came along supporting her old ideas.
Who's the bitch here? the first person to resort to abusive language or the one on the receiving end? Half the time Liz does deserve it because she doesn't know when to let go or is not satisfied until she's persuaded you 100%, but are some people in this forum really that pathetic to resort to hurtful language just because they're frustrated?!
Oh, and 'provocation', also known as the 'jealous husband's defence' is also because a man is struck by sudden rage that his wife is going to leave him thus makes it less heinous for him to kill his wife and have murder reduced to manslaughter. We should never let frail human emotions be a justification for an attack against someone, because then you'll allow such frail emotions to justify a physical attack in the future. I know I should be working on disciplining my emotions so that I don't come out with an assault like the one above and I'd never seek to defend or justify it by saying "I was angry". If you're angry, take a walk and come back when you're calm --> that's a personal responsibility.
By gawds...the stuff some people can come up with!
Yomi
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Yomi
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Post by Yomi on Oct 22, 2003 23:21:45 GMT -5
Oh no no no - this is not some revenge post again you or anything Kumiko, I swear it isn't because I just saw the pictures you posted up of yourself and wanted to ask you a few more questions, if it is ok (if it's not, that's fine - I'll delete this post if you don't want to see it ) I'm interested in the way you changed your image and personality. Who did you model it against? Like instead of gaining weight, you thought you needed to loose more although the child modelling agencies had already asked you to gain more. And then about the hairstyles and makeup - I know there are different hairstyles and certainly many techniques of makeup application - how did you determine that the new haircut 'suited' you better and how did you know how to apply makeup? A clarification is in order here ( ). Are the girls you're referring to feel happy because of the fact that they have the ring on their ring finger and are thus more happy about their status as 'married'? I know some insecure girls who spend their spare time brushing up on their looks so that they can find a boyfriend/husband because they think they're wrong or something's wrong with them if they can't get one. Much like the txt message that Silva Sun got on her phone when she told some girl that she didn't need a boy. Is it a recent phenomenon? That girls as young as 12 should have a boyfriend? Back when I was in primary school (that'd be...more than 10 years ago?), the market for targetting young kids hadn't fully opened up and we kinda all got along in tracksuits and sneakers. Nowadays, wow, I see children in name brand clothing imitating fashion designed for adults (the damn pedophiles must be having a field day seeing girls as young as 8 in a micro mini ). More than ten years ago, younger girls were less sexually active than they are today. Now America's got problems with girls as young as 13/14 falling pregnant. Sexual liberation is one thing, but I'm kinda getting the bad feeling that someone is taking things too far. What does this have to do with what you said? That someone is promoting the idea that girls, even young girls, need to be hitched in order to appear cool, wanted, desirable and the rest of the rubbish and you guys are constantly subject to these hateful messages. But if a girl is happy because they've found someone to love, good luck to them Um...you said earlier that you used to live on a farm but have moved to the city of London? Even though I'm no pro, I'm guessing that the transition from country to city had a large impact on you. Whilst you maintain that you've always thought this way about your body, the probability that these thoughts are being reinforced by external influences is high. Take a look at the picture you posted, the one with you and the cap on. You've got a collage of posters behind you, each promoting a certain image (you into alternative music or something?), but an image nonetheless. Psychoanalysis is not my field - but you've lived in a modern city for quite a while now and...well...whenever I just take a walk around the city, I could easily count over a hundred messages telling me skinny is good and attractive. Have you ever given consideration to the different lifestyle you're experiencing in the city as opposed to the farm? since you've lived in the city and come into contact with these ideas, can you really talk about this no-man island example? I always wondered whether we had free will to think as we please - from the moment you learn to talk, you're being fed ideas that your parents hold; from the book you read, you're being exposed to the author's views; from a magazine you pick up, you're receiving the message hidden between the words. You could probably explore this idea in a fanfic - but really - are our thoughts really our own? Take care. Yomi
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