Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Aug 31, 2003 8:39:57 GMT -5
Can it be done?
The question that we all ask ourselves when we start a new fanfic. Well, I'm thinking about trying to start a third fic (Hunter x Hunter) and what's bothering me? I'm giving this OC-centered business a shot.
No, it's not a parody. I'm wondering if a fanfic can really be done where it is centered and told mainly (i.e. 98% of the time) from a new character's perspective.
Yes - I have seen a lot of failure - correction: I've only seen failures and I'm starting to wonder whether they really are failures, or whether OC-centered fics just don't work.
Well, I'm determined to try - I've got the prologue up and all but I'm taking a day or two off to think about the plot and future development.
In the meantime, does anyone have any warnings they'd like to give me? Pitfalls which turn OC-centered fics into hideously predictable MS fics? Please - I'd be glad to receive any reminders or opinions about why you think that most (or all) fics based on OCs suck.
Yomi
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Post by Eyes of Crimson on Aug 31, 2003 11:10:34 GMT -5
I think MSs are annoying because they are always in the centre of the spotlight. It's like the other characters love her so much they don't matter much in the story anymore, and the OC becomes the story. She (usually it's a she, I think) has everything she needs to catch other people's attention, and she's good at everything. Yet she shows how fragile she is so that the bishis (or whoever the guy is) can come help her.
Another thing I don't like is that the OC is almost always paired up with the most attractive, charming guy in the story, which is very annoying for the fans of the guy. In my case, I don't like seeing Kurapica-sama paired up with a girl like that (like you said, Yomi-san, the OC is obviously the authoress herself).
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Fibby
Anime Fanatic
"In this world, we stand on the roof of hell, gazing at flowers."
Posts: 324
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Post by Fibby on Aug 31, 2003 20:13:15 GMT -5
I think I was able to see a successful one... once. But then, that was only because the story was not centered on the character. People read fanfictions not to read about original characters. If they wanted to read about one, they'd best buy a real novel or go to fictionpress.
But I think it can be done, so long as there would be no pairings done. ^^; If there is, beware of fangirls! XD
MS... hmm. This is what I think. Don't be too meticulous about steering away from cliches bcoz you might, without realizing it, steer straight into the cliched opposite of the cliche you are trying to veer away from in the first place. Um, am i making sense? ^^; Anyways, another thing. Be unattached to the character. When I was still making original comics, the person I wanted to look good always look bad. But serendipity happens --- i accidentally make a supporting character that people seemed to like so much, they not only want that character to appear often, the character becomes their favorite! Isn't that strange? ;D
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Aug 31, 2003 23:54:09 GMT -5
Yeah, the cliched opposite of cliches...yikes - that's going to be kinda tough. But no, I'm not going to be writing a humorous parody or anything so yeah...hopefully won't fall into any pitfalls there.
In relation to the centre of spotlight - yes, I'm trying to make the fic centered on the OC, meaning yes, she's going to be the driving force (*gulp*).
Is the OC therefore going to be the story? Yes (*gulps some more*)
Does the mean that the other characters are forgotten if they don't have anything to do with the OC? (*starts to sweat*) Yes.
Has everything to get attention? (*whew*) hopefully not.
Going to get all the attention (*whew*) I hope not.
Fragile so that bishies can save her? (*double whew*) she'd rather die than have help from a bishie!
Is this starting to look like a borderline MS in the making?!
Well, no pairings (me not romantic) but....I grudgingly that it's....well....okay, what the heck, self insert. It's going to be self insert - so my sister definitely won't read it (not that she reads fanfics anyway) and arrrrrghhhh! Self insert won't ruin the story will it?! I always say that it's got to go hand in hand with wish fulfilment!
Will there be wish fulfilment?
(*dreaded look of fear*) I don't know - can I give you an answer in a week?
Shucks....do you think this story needs to be put down before I've even got the chapter up?!
Yomi
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Post by M-Chan on Sept 1, 2003 1:02:06 GMT -5
Yea I have to agree with the whole perfect oc thing.. or the MS.. gawd those piss me off... even if its your oc.. let the other characters fill it in and make it interesting.
you guys just gave me an idea for a hunter fic!! hahaha.. >< now to understand the hunter storyline and the characters a bit more.. wanna hear my idea? i wanna see if its okay to put on paper..
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 1, 2003 3:51:43 GMT -5
Yeah - lets hear it. Best to fix up the ideas now rather than to have to overhaul your fic after it's down on paper.
*mutters* still going to give my new fic a shot. Like I said - can an OC-dominated fic really be done or is that just wishful thinking on my part?
Yomi
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Yumiko
Anime Fanatic
MoOOooo!!
Posts: 491
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Post by Yumiko on Sept 1, 2003 6:52:24 GMT -5
hmmm....well I've been doing some thinking and most girls in Japanese Anime are Mary-sues. Because Japanese themselves like doing that...more romantic you know what I mean? ^^;; I'm redoing my Chang Xiao Sen again, I know it gets kinda annoying ^^;; but this time it's set in a different time and place...I think I'm going to make it Tragedy or something ^^;; but then I have to think of a plot *sigh* so many things u have to do for a story Personally, I enjoy reading mary-sues/Ocs fic. I don't really mind them even if they are wishful thinking it's just amusing to imagine another OC joining our favourite characters. I like it when an OC is actually realted to the characters in some way like blood-related and u know lots of twist and turns like your fic Yomi, "Untitled" I have been reading a couple of chapters When the OC is actually related to one of the characters it just feels like as if she's part of the real story, to make it realstic Gahh! I got so much too much fics to work on >< I seriously need to finish one of them ^^;;
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 1, 2003 7:52:04 GMT -5
Had you read my first post which started this thread off, you'll realize that I'm trying to AVOID (yes, A-V-O-I-D) making a MS because I mind. I mind because everyone else can write one up in two minutes as well. It's not that very amusing to me because 'OCs' who join our favourite characters ineviatably all do the same thing. Excuse me if I fail to see the amusement. I was telling myself off for not being able to make the OCs NOT related to the main characters. Making them related very readily leads them into the firey pits of MSdom - and I don't want that. 'OCs' (note that I put them in quotations because I'm being sarcastic here) who are related to characters is just blatant wishfulfilment (isn't Killua cute! I wish I were his sister!) and to me is not so 'amusing' because everyone else has just about the same idea. Wow - to be just like 'everyone else' - how amusing. I take it you never visited the sites I recommended on how to deal with MS then? Whatever. I'll learn not to waste time like that in the future. Thank you. Yomi
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Post by Eyes of Crimson on Sept 1, 2003 8:47:52 GMT -5
Will there be wish fulfilment? (*dreaded look of fear*) I don't know - can I give you an answer in a week? Shucks....do you think this story needs to be put down before I've even got the chapter up?! Yomi Wish fulfilment.... hm.... I think it's normal for people to want to be part of their fav. anime/manga, though it might annoying for other people. I think you should post a chapter of the story and see what other peoples' reaction is. I, for one, will definitely go read it.
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 1, 2003 10:00:49 GMT -5
Annoying for *a lot* of people. I guess there's no other way then huh? Just gotta post up a chapter and see if people bash me with baseball bats or not. You konw - it's just that I constantly give out reviews and stuff all the time and you'd think I'd be able to judge whether the reception for the fic is going to be good or not. I really want to know whether a self-insert fic is possible. I want to know whether you can create a story with a self-insert doing things you want to do that doesn't qualify as you being a Mary Sue doing cliched things. Oh well - got to get myself burnt to see whether it hurts right? *sigh* Yomi
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Post by Eyes of Crimson on Sept 1, 2003 12:58:51 GMT -5
Hm.... I do think it's possible, though I haven't seen any good MarySue fic. Not that the story's bad, it's concentrated on this one girl and we have no idea who she is. We want to know about the characters from the anime/manga. So I guess as long as the story revolves around the main characters also, it's ok. I don't think self-inserts are annoying as long as you describe the OC just like you - meaning, not that perfect at everything. MSs are just too perfect, too good to be true, but OCs can have faults and that would make them less annoying.
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Yumiko
Anime Fanatic
MoOOooo!!
Posts: 491
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Post by Yumiko on Sept 2, 2003 3:45:17 GMT -5
sorry....
I was just expressing my opinion ^^;; about the blood realted thing, well it depends on which situation it's in and it also depends on how people look at Mary-sues.
Yomi when you judge a OC is a mary-sue doesn't mean she IS a mary-sue. It might be a MS from your point of view but others might not think it is a mary-sue...
umm sorry Yomi, but I don't think your taking your alto-ego seriously like you told me. You keep on attacking me whatever I post up... I know your going to tell me cuz my posts are stupid but still...
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Fibby
Anime Fanatic
"In this world, we stand on the roof of hell, gazing at flowers."
Posts: 324
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Post by Fibby on Sept 2, 2003 4:37:58 GMT -5
hmm... writing an OC-centered fic could pose as a problem. a very big one. especially if it's self-insert. simply because even if you're determined not to make him/her an MS or whatever, you can't help but become blinded by your own "wish-fulfillment" fantasies (you may not realize it at first --- unless, of course, someone points it out to you or something. or in this case, unless someone from ffnet reviews your fic and shots back at you everything you said about MSs. ^^; ) if you are still quite determined to make one, you'll need lots of people to 'pre-read' your chapters. (think of your reputation, yomi-san! imagine the reviews you will get if the fic you plan to make becomes a perfect example of the very fics you despise! ) and like i said, ppl read fanfictions not to read about original characters. they'd go to fictionpress, or even better, buy novels. from experience, the characters to whom you are attached to from the very beginning usually turns out... yech, for lack of better term. (it's okay if you get attached to them in the long run, though.)
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Yomi
Amateur Otaku
Posts: 129
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Post by Yomi on Sept 2, 2003 5:55:41 GMT -5
I've been waiting for people to shoot back at me for a very long time now. I'm starting to think that the waiting may be futile. The fact that the people whose fics I flame have Mary Sues in them means they're too stupid to intelligently flame back. As to the self-insert - yes, I've given this a lot of thought. I said on my own page somewhere that even if the character is not almighty perfect, just the fact that the OC is the main character will irk people already. I'm thinking that it might be because of the writing - if that's the case, then I'm going to have to spend a lot of time on it to make sure that the linguistics helps to peter out the negative effects of OC-centerism. Hence bad things are: - Wish-fulfilment - it's despicable because our fundamental desires are inevitably the same. Who's going to read crud that they can spin in their own daydreams.
Solution? Make the wish unique?
- OC-centerism - it's despicable because the reader is forced to see the adventure about their favourite characters from a stranger's perspective. Further complication: OC turns out to be a Mary Sue
Solution? Avoid perfectionism. Make OC identifiable to the reader. Further complication - how to make this OC identifiable then? How to make a character that readers can relate to? Secondary solution: make it a real person? Last complication: how do you make a real person? Is it just a person with some nasty habit like picking their nose? Does it mean that character must have spunk? I know flaws have to impact on the character's actions, but I feel like I'm still missing something else.
- People don't want to read about OCs fullstop - tell them to go f*ck themselves then.
That is your comeback? All right - I'm going to say this in short sentences for you: - You love your own characters too much. You have emotional attachment to your character. You are in no position to judge.
- People whose opinions are backed by emotions (e.g. I like her) don't mean a scrap to me. I see those as rubbish opinions not worth my time.
- People's opinions that are backed by logic (e.g. she has many rebellious qualities that children living in ghettos tend to display) are opinions that I respect because it displays intelligence. So if you come back with reasons telling me why a character is not a Mary Sue, by all means tell me. But you have a hideous track record of trying to pick out the Mary Sues. You remember Kassari don't you? I remember you have quite a lot of difficulties understanding the CONCEPT.
www.fanfiction.net/reviews.php?storyid=1373922 Go read the story folks - even if you don't know Hunter x Hunter, just read the first two paragraphs and you'll instantly see that it IS a mary sue.
- I judge characters objectively and not from the perspective from an adoring fan, like you (not that it's bad or wrong). BUT that means we're going to be talking about completely different things.
- Talking objective - impartial and without emotion - gets you closer to FACT. That's what I do.
- Talking subjectively (I like) - not impartial, heavily biased with preconceptions about a character - you deal in opinion.
The purpose of this fic is whether I'm going to create a MS fic or not with the premise that I've given. I'm asking for people's ideas on how I can A-V-O-I-D the things which make a Mary Sue. If YOU can't even tell whether a character is a Mary Sue or not, and would like to live you your happy world of "it's just all opinion", then I'm sorry, but it isn't helping me. I want judgements, not opinion. Hades:[/i] You call this an attack? Gees Babe, I'm...hurt...I'm...shocked...I'm.....how can this be an attack on you?! By the yutzes on Mount Olympus Yomi hasn't even gotten his hands dirty. I'd be hurling personal abuse at you right now - make no mistake, if it were ME in charge (memo to myself: plan hostile takeover of forum in the future....), I'd have QUITE a lot to say about your inability to read, your inability to be on topic, your inability to refrain from making inane statements, your inability to learn what a Mary Sue is after all this detailed discussion on the forum and the interent in general (babe, they diss Mary Sues like your own Sen here, so unless you've got something constructive to say in defence apart from the reeking "it's all just opinion", then don't waste everyone's time and keep out of the conversation), and just your basic inability to respond with some intelligence. And babe, you know that's mild coming from me, but Yomi here let me step through to show you what his alter-ego is really capable of because yes, he's pissed off at your own self-confessed stupidity , and I'm personally surprised that he hasn't blown it already just like me. Look babe, if you want me to show you a real attack, I'll do it in my own private domain....just a bit busy right now coming up with a new disease and all (hey Pain, is the new one called "Catastrophia"?). So if I were you, don't push it. Yomi: There, you satisfied now? That's the alter-ego out of the bottle - if I really wanted to 'attack' you, as you so seriously[/i] put it, I could easily say a lot of nastier things. Ok? I just have low tolerance for people who want to say a lot of things which don't make much sense and who try to invalidate my statements without strong reasoning. Heck, do you know how frustrating it is to communicate with someone who probably isn't reading this right now because of some 'mysterious' eye problem? Don't get me started about the pithy excuses you're giving me right now - I'm still playing nice. Scrap the "it's all opinion" about whether an OC is a Mary Sues - that's an excuse for crappy authors. Tell me more about these situations where it is acceptable for an OC to have blood relations to an established character. Tell me the situations where it is NOT acceptable. This is a good point you've raised here. I haven't given blood relations much thought (aside from girl being in Kurata clan with Kurapika : Perhaps you've come across situations where you think it is ok. I'd gladly love to hear them. Yomi
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Post by Eyes of Crimson on Sept 2, 2003 19:13:10 GMT -5
There are lots of stories out there about another survivor from the Kuruta clan, and it's always a girl who likes Kurapica, then eventually they fall for each other. >_< I think if you add in a twist of some sort to this, you can make it more interesting. Like, no one's wrote if the girl is really an assassin trying to kill Kurapica, and she only dressed up as a girl from Kuruta so she can get close to Kurapica. (Don't mind me - I'm not thinking properly right now ^^;; )
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